Suggestions originally placed in the Suggestion Box may be moved here when they are no longer relevant. This way, the Suggestion Box does not become cluttered, but previous discussions are preserved for the sake of reference. Notice that most people will not look here for updates, so if you have something to add to a discussion moved here, bring the topic back up in the Suggestion Box so that it will be seen.
General
I've begun implementing Categories, but I'm not sure exactly how to format them yet. Where on the article pages should the categories be put, and how should they be formatted? What should the titles of the Category pages be? Basically, any input is good. Categories will be useful for grouping pages across groups, especially since pages can be in more than one category (See Renselaeus). I'm just not sure how to format them yet. bookaddict October 10, 2007, at 04:03 PM
I've worked on Categories a bit more. Now you can use %categories% to make the box show up around the categories on a page (somewhat like you do for the trails). Also Categories redirects to the "Category" Group. The point of that is because every page that links to Category shows up on Category, but we only want that page to contain a link to all the different pages in the category group. Does that make sense? Anyway, pretty much all my questions from my previous comment above still apply; I just wanted to give an update. bookaddict December 10, 2007, at 12:38 PM
Is it possible to put the category listings above the title? Or if we have them at the bottom, I'd prefer they were below everything else (wikitrails, references, etc). As for names of category pages, maybe we could have year, decade, book, thread (like MH, etc.), country (the main ones), (important) family, (important) person? I'm still not completely clear on the whole category thing, so these might all be useless suggestions!
longlegs December 10, 2007, at 02:51 PM
Categories are basically just another way of grouping pages. The groups like characters, books, magic, etc. are great, but there are other ways to group pages as well, and one of the nice things about wikis is that they allow you to do that. For example, we might want to link all the Sartor pages together in one category, including the characters from Sartor, the atlas page for Sartor, the Sartoran culture page, etc. As for placement, it's not possible to put category listings above the title. I've been thinking that the bottom is the best place as well. Should we do (from very bottom up) categories, then wikitrails, then references? Also, I like most of your suggestions on categories. The only one we might not want to implement is "year", which might be a bit too specific. If there's one year that's really important, though, and the events of that year connect more than one book or thread, a year category would still be an option. I just don't think we need a category for every year. Anyway, we don't need to have a category scheme, b/c I think it'll all just work out. Basically, if you think there should be a category for something, make that category! bookaddict December 10, 2007, at 04:07 PM
Ok, got it. Thanks! I agree about the years (that we don't need one for every year) and the formatting order.
longlegs December 11, 2007, at 10:31 AM
Ok, I created Custom Style Shortcuts using WikiStyles for the tables of contents and for the book info boxes (you can see both on the Crown Duel page, and the table of contents box appears on this page as well. What do you think? Should the colors be different, the borders be thicker, or anything like that? bookaddict May 10, 2008, at 10:48 PM
Who's Who
Well, there's going to have to be spoilers if we want this to be complete. My thought for the character pages (you might have a better idea) was to put the basic, non-spoiler information at the top. You know, all the stuff that people want to know when the character is mentioned in a book and they've forgotten who that character is. Then have other sections titled something along the lines of character history, character analysis, etc. that will have spoilers. Just put a spoiler warning on the section. bookaddict August 29, 2007, at 02:41 PM
I'm thinking we should list ALL the characters under the lists for each book as an easy reference. However, like the definitions page, minor characters should be defined right on that list, while major characters will be linked to their own page. I think only major characters need be in the countries list, but you can include minor characters there if you'd like. bookaddict September 12, 2007, at 04:55 PM
I just added the characters from King's Shield onto the Inda Series page. Originally, I'd had all the characters from the series on one page, for ease. If there were any important character changes, I'd just leave them on the individual character pages, with spoiler warnings (like here). But there are major changes in The Fox. Because some of those changes are important to understand for people reading King's Shield, I wanted them to be easy to find. So I put them on the main page with spoiler warnings. However, that just doesn't really seem to work to me. Should I go ahead and split the character list back up into individual pages for each book (as it is on Sherwood's website)? Or should any major changes just go on the individual character pages, as I had originally planned? bookaddict June 28, 2008, at 09:57 PM
I put a family tree table here, to get started on the big interlocking family trees (and since it was always something that intrigued/confused me, and I thought it'd be helpful to have a visual, explorable representation...) but would like some feedback. I think it's important to have siblings right there, but it's hard to get it to work gracefully. In general, but specifically the siblings area, is it fairly intuitive? (I have a lot to learn...) ghuzayyil August 17, 2007, at 03:07 AM
I'm investigating family tree markup, and unfortunately, can't find any. I might have to write it myself. Will keep you posted! faye August 17, 2007, at 06:33 PM
Atlas
Another problem I've been facing is what is present? is it 4730's when the CJ stories start, or 4749 when CCD is? Because when writing who is Ruler of a country or anything else it changes throughout the stories. lauroragirl
I had that same question. I know we should put somewhere all the rulers we know of, but as for what to put under the basic details (current ruler, etc.), I don't know. Sherwood, what would you say? For now, I guess I would put when CCD is, since that's the most "recent" info we know. Anyone else have any ideas? bookaddict August 30, 2007, at 10:41 PM
Okay, what I find myself doing is making very general histories and suchlike, with occasional references to the War Years but trying to avoid specific spoilers. I figure if all these stories get put out in some form or another, I can come back and be more specific, figuring anyone who actually reads here has already read what's available and wants more detail.
sherwood 4 Feb 2008
Sounds good to me. If needed, we can have a short waiting period after the stories come out before putting in the spoilers. bookaddict February 04, 2008, at 02:52 PM
New thought! I was wondering if someone could scan the map in the front of Inda so we could have a map to go with the atlas showing the overall areas? (Yes the countries change some but if we could edit it to show the countries as of 4700's it would clarify it). lauroragirl January 29, 2008 at 9:26 AM
I have been wanting to put my OWN map up, which is far more accurate, but alas, my old printer won't scan any more.
sherwood 4 Feb 2008
I know you have several maps here. Would those do for now at least? bookaddict February 04, 2008, at 02:52 PM
The big map is a mess--it's been repaired by tape so many times that photographed distorted. It also depicts things just before the war. I need to redraw all these...I'm thinking I'll do it region by region, somewhat like in the atlas, which can then have hyperlinks on it to the data. Another problem: the maps from Inda's time are quite different. Still trying to figure out an approach. Oh, if we can have pictures, then I should ready some of the sketches of fashions. Sherwood 4 Feb 2008 at about 2:30 pm local time
Well, take your time with the maps! Whenever you get a chance, different maps would be a good way of showing how boundaries, etc., change over time. And I would love to see sketches of the fashions!
bookaddict February 04, 2008, at 04:46 PM
Reader's Guides
I know A Stranger to Command and SiMH shouldn't be listed separately on the Reader's Guides page, but I'm not sure how best to merge them. What I've done is really primitive wiki-work. Help! longlegs April 12, 2008, at 12:13 PM
The best thing to do to "rename" pages like this is to copy and paste all the information from the old page to the new one (making any necessary changes). Then "redirect" the old page to the new one using (:redirect Category/PageNameWithNoSpaces:), obviously inserting the correct Category and Page to be linked to instead of "Category/PageNameWithNoSpaces". (The category can be omitted if it's the same as it was before.) Redirects are very useful for other reasons as well! (I've listed some uses here.) bookaddict April 16, 2008, at 10:35 PM
I've begun work on Crown Duel's Readers Guide. I've been playing around with formatting (using Wikipedia's formatting for book pages as a guide), and I've also begun work on a summary of the book. What do you all think? Feel free to make changes or add to the summary! bookaddict May 07, 2008, at 03:32 PM
I like the format you have. It's logical and neat and simple. Is it possible to make the boxes any size you want? Because that's the only formatting thing I think should be altered. Summary's great!
longlegs May 07, 2008, at 09:07 PM
It's possible to change the size of the boxes, yes (at least to some extent). How are you thinking they should be changed? I wish I could make the border around the boxes so it stands out a little less, but unfortunately, it looks like I can't. bookaddict May 07, 2008, at 10:49 PM
What else should be in the reader's guides section? I was thinking brief summaries/blurbs, something that mentions the various storylines, suggested reading orders. What do you think? ~longlegs
It might be a good idea to provide a link to the stories posted online.
wordweaver
That would be good, but there would need to be a note on there somewhere about how you have to be a member of athanarel to read them and other such info. bookaddict
Basic Encyclopedic info should be included for the printed books, such as publisher, publishing date, awards, cover art, etc. For Crown Duel, the differences between the editions should be mentioned. Perhaps Sherwood's thoughts on the books (though she would have to do that), FAQ, trivia, even a chapter by chapter outline/summary and commentary. Book timelines. Links to relevant characters, places, definitions, etc. There are tons of helpful things we can add! bookaddict
When I get a chance, I'm going to start slowly working on a Chapter by Chapter guide for Crown Duel (and could definitely use help!) I think it should include a summary (maybe an outline), commentary (like a sparknotes type thing, and you can also include things we know from other athanarel and CastleTlanth that a person wouldn't know just from reading the book), changes between editions (for CD), FAQ, etc. This way, we can keep the main Book page free of spoilers, while still going in depth to the books. Book-spanning commentary, discussion, timelines, etc. should probably be kept separate. Of course, if you think of a better way to do things, feel free to change things up. (By the way, part of my inspiration is the Harry Potter Lexicon). bookaddict
I really like the sparknotes-ish idea. Do you envision a page for speculations on characters, discussion of themes and storylines that span several books, etc.? Some sort of forum page? Well, maybe not a forum, since we have athanarel. But what are your thoughts?
longlegs
No forum page, as this is more of an encyclopedia (and yes, athanarel is a good place for that kind of thing. Also speculation needs to be based on more than an individual's wishful thinking. In other words, you could include it somewhere if Sherwood's mentioned it (For example, she's answered the question "What if Savona fell in love with Meliara?" in CastleTlanth) or if the books strongly suggest it. But otherwise, I think it should be kept to a minimum, except maybe about a future book we haven't read yet. Discussion of themes and storylines that span several books would be really neat, though I don't know exactly how we'd organize it. When I said book-spanning earlier, I meant spanning a single book (more than one chapter). That kind of thing could be linked to from the main book page. Your idea is great, though. How could we set that up? bookaddict
What do you think about a page with all the juicy tidbits (and any "what-ifs" like the one you mentioned) that we've teased out of sherwood and that appear in future stories? And some area that tells people, "So-and-so appears in this story and that story. In this span of time, she becomes this, and such-and-such gradually happens." But my idea might be redundant, because these types of things could easily be included in the story guides you suggested earlier.
longlegs
The "juicy tidbits" page sounds really good. Maybe call it FAQ or Trivia or just stay with "Juicy Tidbits"? I think one of those forms would be good, so we don't have to try to blend the eclectic mix of information we've gotten into coherent paragraphs. We can leave it in question and answer or bulleted trivia form. And actually, if there isn't much for a particular book, this can be at the bottom of the main page instead of on a separate page. The one about the characters, though, should be on the individual character page (which will be linked to from the book pages multiple times, I'm sure.) Storylines that span several books, I think, will have to be kept to the timelines and links between books. General themes that span several books, though, could perhaps be linked to from the main Reader's Guides page? Themes and timelines that span one book could be linked to from the main page for that specific book. And chapter analysis and other things specific to the chapter (maybe even memorable quotes?) as I mentioned earlier, will be in the chapter-by-chapter guides. How does all of that sound for organization? bookaddict
I started a chapter by chapter guide of CJ's first Record, tell me your thoughts (what should be changed or done better) and when I get more time I'll try to continue it.lauroragirl, September 18.2007
Lookin' good! Nothing I can see that needs to be changed for now, but eventually we'll want to add chapter analysis, memorable quotes, etc. for each chapter. bookaddict September 19, 2007, at 08:20 AM
Timelines
I think we need to have a page on the fall of Old Sartor because we keep referring to it with no explanation. But I have no idea where we should put it, does anyone have any ideas? lauroragirl, September 18,2007 at 9:58 AM
What if we changed the Timelines title to History and put it there?
longlegs
% We most definitely need a page on the Fall. Whenever I've been linking to it, I've placed it in the Timelines group, as that makes most sense to me. And we can change the title of the Timelines group if you'd like. Argh, these groups are annoying to me, since I'm used to Wikipedia, which doesn't have them. bookaddict September 18, 2007, at 04:20 PM
I'm trying to think of a way to approach the Fall.
sherwood September 18, 2007, at 10:06 PM
Lifestyle and Culture
I figured I'd better double-check the pertinent pages (like on the Venn) in case a reader or two might cruise by here looking for data, when King's Shield comes out. As usual I found a zillion stupid tyops, and a couple of loose connections. I completely lost the Marloven Timeline and had to reconstruct it, which took a very long time this morning, so i don't dare mess with trying to create a link from the Atlas Venn page to the Culture Venn page. (There already is a link going backward.) If anyone who, unlike me, actually possesses a brain and would be willing to fix that, I thank you.sherwood June 28, 2008 4:38 p.m.
I added that link for you. When you want to link to a page in a different group, you have to indicate which group the page is in. So to link to the Atlas Venn page, you would put [[Atlas/LandOfTheVenn]]. It's really confusing (personally, I don't really like the system), so don't feel bad!bookaddict June 28, 2008, at 09:57 PM
I wanted to divide up the topics in Lifestyle and Culture, since the list was getting kind of long and unwieldy. But I couldn't think of good categories to divide the topics into, so I just sort of grouped together ones that were related. I'd still like to have categories or something, though, so if anyone has ideas, go ahead and move things around on the page or list your suggestions here! bookaddict May 10, 2008, at 09:46 PM
Citation Handbook and Editing Guidelines
Ok, I created "Guest Editors" and "Spoiler Protocol" in the Editing Guidelines, but it would be nice if someone else would go over them. Especially look over the Spoiler Protocol, as I may have made it too complicated. I also added an "Other Helpful Hints" section for guidelines we talked about but I didn't think warranted an entire section. bookaddict August 19, 2007, at 01:25 AM
Questions re: Guest Editing: Are people only going to be able to obtain the guest password through athanarel? Or do we want to come up with another way, so that people don't have to have an LJ account to get it? Also, if people come upon this website without going through Athanarel, and decide they want to be a regular contributor, how can they do that? bookaddict August 19, 2007, at 12:09 AM